Monday, March 21, 2011

Conversation with NM

In the fall of 2009 I emailed my NM and told her that she was bullying me and a few other honest observations including that the kids would not be visiting her alone.  She responded that my email hurt her and that “she was letting go.”  We didn’t speak until April 2010 at which time she asked again for the kids to visit her that summer because she deserved it because she was getting older but still young enough.  I replied in email that I could visit with them or she could visit here.  I have not spoken to her on the phone, nor have the kids seen her in 24 months.

I was upset to see an email from her last week that my grandma had had a heart attack as a result of her elective surgery.  She sent the email many days after the heart attack happened.  (Note: the email gave that fact about GM and continued on with 2 sentences about what she has been up to regarding trying to sell her house). 

So after I spoke to my GM I called my NM and she proceeded to give me an update on GM and what she had learned from her docs and how she should be moved soon to a rehab center but not sure what day that would happen.

As usual she tried to dominate the conversation.  Once again she tells me how she sees all these other grandparents in her resort town that have their grandkids visit but not her.    Once again she mentions how they are getting older.  Once again I tell her that there have been times when I have asked her to come visit for a long weekend and she said she is busy working, and then we observe her managing to go with friends on a vacation.  My NM is pretty quick with her excuses.  She says, “I was working then.  Now I am retired.”  I tell her that I have worked for the past 25 years since I was 22 and have managed to take long weekends to visit her and take one week’s vacation several times to drive with the kids to visit…and then I see her lose patience after 36 hours.  She tells me that she made a point to have my brother and I see our paternal grandparents often even though she and my dad were divorced.  “I didn’t keep them from you,” she says.  (My grandparents conveniently helped her out watching us for weeks at a time when needed.  They were 2 hours away and she never drove us—she had no relationship with them.  As young as ages 6 and 8 she put us on a Greyhound bus which had 3 stops in between and took 4 hours).

She tells me, “You were my princess.  I have always done everything for you.”  I told her I have been an adult for a long time and she has not done much for me as an adult.  As far as the childhood goes, I tell her that I did get food, shelter and those things.  She tells me that I got a lot more than that. She continued on, “Until you got married and someone else was responsible for you.”  (Note this is a really oddball thing to say.  I married my DH who is same age as me.  We have worked hard—I would never say that anyone was responsible for me).

I told her that it is the realization of many things over the past couple of years and her comments in front of me and behind my back that have made me realize that there is not like for me or love or respect.

“Crickets.”

There was no reaction or dispute to that.  I’m sure she wasn’t listening to me.  But she knows what I am talking about.  I stated a couple times that there was no respect for me.

I continue and tell her what she said in front of the kids summer of 2008 made me realize these things.  Note: after a weekend visit to her in summer of 2008 with me/the kids and her bitching at them for not playing certain sports that make a lot of money (golf), and bitching at them for walking in front of a glass door that scared a cat outside, and telling them that they need to visit her without me as they would have more fun…….she also told them something else as we were getting ready to leave. 

The story about my ex-step-father is a long one.  But pivotal to where I am today. 

I continued and told her that what she said in front of the kids and me has really made things clear.  What she said to the kids that day in 2008 after I told her I didn’t appreciate having ex-step-father drop by un-announced: “The ex-step-father is a nice man.  Your mother is the one with the problem.”

Back to our conversation….She said, “If that is the worst thing I ever said to you, then my mom (GM) has said much worse things to me.”

I told her we were going to have to agree that we are never going to see eye to eye and that we will disagree.  I also said a couple times during the conversation that I did not cause this situation.

She tells me that we should do one of two things.  Either (1) see a counselor together, or (2) go on a vacation together for a few days and talk it out (I almost LOL’d). 

Years and years ago I thought to myself that she and I should do counseling.  I thought she was the way she was as an adult child of an alcoholic and got books on it and felt bad for her childhood.  But now I know what my DH has always told me—that she will never change and can’t be reasoned with and all I can do is change how I want to deal with her.

I said, “Well, option 2 is not going to happen.”

Toward the end she mentioned how she wants to hear from the kids once in a while and how hard can it be to make some calls on Sunday night and also to call GM, and she says, “She is leaving them money (in her will) so the least they can do is call her on a Sunday.”

And then her cell phone died.  She must have plugged it in because pretty soon she left me a vm: “I did not hang up, my phone died.  I just wanted to say that you only have one mother, so remember that.  Give it some thought.”

At no time in our conversation did she ask me one word about what I am up to.  At no time did she ask one word about how her grandkids are.

6 comments:

  1. WRB, I can't believe she said that. Good for you for not allowing her to spend time with your kids away from you. She is itching for a way to spit her venom - either at you or your kids.

    I always find it transparent when a narcissistic parent or adult sibling suggests going to family therapy with their adult child or sibling. In my opinion, it is a way for them to set up the old roles that each family member played before boundaries were set in the presence of a mediator who they fully intend to manipulate. It's a way for them to prove that they are right and you are wrong. It's definitely not a way for them to work on their own issues. They don't believe they have any issues. Otherwise, they would go to individual therapy.

    I hope you are coping with all of this okay!

    Hugs,
    Raven

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  2. Shuddering at "I just wanted to say that you only have one mother, so remember that. Give it some thought.”

    You did a picture perfect job not letting her get to you on the phone.

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  3. Interesting that she made the same remark your Grandma made about only having one mother/daughter.

    I'm sorry the phone call wasn't more productive. I think you should determine what you hope to accomplish if you were to enter counseling with your mother, and whether or not your goal is achievable with therapy.

    I don't know that therapy would help at all, and I have to admit that it's a scary thought to go into therapy with an NM!

    From Will I Ever Be Good Enough:

    "It is quite rare for a person with true NPD to seek therapy for herself and genuinely want to change and grow personally. In my experience, NPD clients who do seek therapy are searching for answers in how to deal with someone else."

    Also from the book:

    "If your mother has never dealt with feelings or owned her own issues, therapy will be a waste of time. Many mothers walk out of therapy sessions when the issues relate to something that they have done wrong or that is hurtful to the daughters. It is typical of the full-blown narcissist to blame her daughter even in therapy and in front of the therapist."

    With those quotes in mind, I'd say that you should tell your mother that she needs to enter therapy by herself for a while before you'd even consider going to a session with her. Chances are she won't do it, and you get out of it without having to give an absolute no!

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  4. Well you have my complete respect for getting on the phone, WRB. I mean, I am mentally bowing down to your courage for that. Whew! I'm still reeling over all the same-old-same-old responses. It's not that I'm surprised, I'm just reeling at the perfect NM act she put on! I mean, if we all gave our NMs a call, I think we'd have the same exact experience! Same excuses, same poisons, same deflections, same guilt trips, same same same. It is creepy to say the least how similar these women are.

    I'm really impressed with your ground-standing, truth-telling, and poise. Your grace is so clear to me. After everything that has happened, you are a clear-headed woman, and nothing she threw at you could possibly throw you off course. So amazing!

    They do love the last word, and they do love their place as the "only mother" in our lives. Turns out the universe is much more generous than biology - there are a dozen women standing in line to mother you, her assertion is not true.

    You even have a mother inside.

    You are an inspiration and a role model.

    xo
    upsi

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  5. Good points that CC brings up from Will I Ever Be Good Enough! I think you did a good job trying to diffuse your NM and not engage in her games; even being bold enough to mention some of her slights on you (which can be a HUGE step for us kids of NP's).

    Though she likes to point out (and induce your guilt) that you only have one mother, she only has one WRB. . . . too bad she can't sit and marinate on that a bit too. ;)

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  6. Thank you everyone so much for your comments—each of you has helped me cope so much, and the past year of blog reading and educating gave me strength to have to deal with her on that call. Knowing she is one of many who use the same script really helped!!

    Years ago when I did fantasize about seeing a therapist with my NM, I was not even near a place that I am now. Back at that time I had no kids. I would never do therapy with her now. Good point how if she were sincere she would seek it for herself first. In fact, when I sent her an email in the fall of 2009 I stated that I felt she needed to see someone. Her response to me was my words were hurtful and she was “letting go”. She will never change, nor see anything other than her own reality—all she wants is for her daughter (me) and my own family to treat her like the commoners we are, to a Queen. Someone must have mentioned to her in passing that they have had group therapy with a family member.

    My NM is now playing the role of dutiful daughter to GM, and I am certain that includes conversations about me and how after all everyone only has one mother.

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